League of Women Voters CEO Celena Stewart: Courage is Not the Absence of Fear

 CHARLES LUCKEY INTERVIEW

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REV. PAUL BRANDEIS RAUSHENBUSH, HOST:

 I want to address the extraordinary gathering of generals, admirals, and other leaders of our military that were summoned to Washington on Tuesday. I can't think of a better person to comment than Lt. Gen.  Charles D. Luckey, who is retired but who served as head of the entire U.S. Army Reserve, and served the nation for 43 years of active duty and Army Reserve.

So general, thank you so much for joining me on such short notice. We both witnessed the fact that the president and Defense Secretary Hegseth called in the top leaders and brass from across the country, across the world, I believe, and asked them to come. It wasn't clear why.

And then we kind of saw this one speech by a defense Secretary Hegseth. What's your take on what this gathering was. And you're now a student at Wake Forest Divinity, which I'm so pleased about. You were an extremely high-ranking general in our armed services. You would have been in that room had you been serving. What do you think? What did you see? What have you heard? What is this?

LT. GEN. CHARLES D. LUCKEY (RET.), GUEST:

So, first of all, thank you for giving me the quick opportunity to talk a little bit to all your listeners. I did not hear the actual remarks. I heard excerpts from them. Frankly, I was in my course on New Testament interpretation at the time. And so I know bits and pieces of it, but I don't know the whole deal.

But I will say this: by all accounts, it was an extraordinary gathering. And at least in my 43 years in the U.S. military, I've never witnessed anything quite like it in terms of sort of the urgency of convening so many commanders from around the world, from all the services and components of the army, to Quantico. So I would say it was extraordinary in that regard. I don't know all the ins and outs of what was said or what was implied by what was then said was said. But I, I can assure you and your listeners that it was an exceptional, exceptional event in the sense that I've just never witnessed anything quite like it. And I don't think anybody in that room had either.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

One of the things that the president did say is that we were going to kind of test out the military in American cities. That for many of us rings real alarm bells. And coming from the military yourself and all those decades of service for which we thank you, how would that land with the military generals and others in that room?

CHARLES LUCKEY:

 So I think, without presuming to know what was in the hearts and minds of every everybody sitting in that audience, I am very comfortable in saying that I think for at least the great preponderance of senior leadership in that room - and it was not just admirals and generals, it was also their senior leadership team. I think it would be an extraordinary experience to hear anybody in a position of authority just constantly talk about using the US military, particularly the active component of it, in our cities, in our homeland, period, as a training ground for combat operations or some other sort of operation someplace outside of the homeland. So my guess is, everybody was astonished by that remark, but I think I could be wrong. But that'd be my my supposition.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

I mean, you can only go off of your own experience, but I know how seriously you took your oath. We've talked about that in this podcast earlier. And I just think right now, with the American people watching this and saying, well, what does this mean? Especially right now as the president continues to threaten cities who are asking him not to send the military, he's determined to send the military. And you can correct me here, that this puts the military in a very difficult position - because they're being asked to do something by the commander-in-chief that, actually, both the governors and the mayors in major cities are asking them not to do.

CHARLES LUCKEY:

So I would nuance my response a little bit, just because there is a difference between the role of, particularly as to the Army, the Army National Guard in the homeland for certain types of things. So they have done disaster response and done a wonderful job of it. They are also obviously a part of the Army and can mobilize and deploy into combat. And there have been times when they've helped with sort of support aspects of civil disturbance challenges. But you know, this is not something that I suspect most people in the room are comfortable with contemplating, and I suspect that it'll create, depending on how it's played out and depending on what the actual orders are, it may end up creating some significant professional and moral dilemmas for a lot of people.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

I just think just the phrase “Using dangerous cities as training grounds” feels unprecedented to me. And I'm sure it's also, I think what you just said is like, what is that? How does that feel for the military personnel who are meant to protect the American people? I also think it seemed like Defense Secretary Hegseth was saying that there would be no welcome of, of the effort to, protect women from harassment or other kinds of complaints.

And also like the expense involved, but also just the bringing all of that kind of power into one room to lecture them in that way. I don't know, I'm just curious how that lands with you, as well.

CHARLES LUCKEY:

Well, your listeners may not know this, but you know me well enough to know sort of what I think of, anytime I say “extraordinary.” I mean, this is something I'm still wondering myself in terms of what exactly are we doing, and why are we doing it? I do think the unique nature of it, the urgency of it, the images coming from it - because I have seen some of the images - are all sort of exceptional things. And outside, I would say, of any norm that most of the senior leadership in that room and that convening probably experienced before.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

I'm looking for your take more than anything, but I just think like, yeah, the fact that the defense secretary says he doesn't want fat generals and admirals and he wants the combat troops to meet highest male standard, I don't want to put you in an uncomfortable position, but you're the only one who I know who might have been in that room, who might be able to help me parse this out from the perspective of the military.

CHARLES LUCKEY:

Yeah. And you have me at either an advantage or disadvantage because I would also be seeing it through my 43 years of experience in the Army, how many years I had when I retired.

So part of this is just, when I talked about it being outside of norms, I think for a lot of senior professionals in that audience, and I know many of them who are dedicated professional soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, guardians, who have spent in the case of individuals that are this senior, decades sort of ensconced in the traditions of the services and the basic norms of, what does it mean that we're going to support and defend the Constitution of United States of America against all enemies, foreign, domestic, and bear true faith and allegiance to the same? I think for most folks that have come out of that culture, which pretty much everybody in that room has, yeah, I think it is a very challenging shift that they're being asked to make. And when I say challenging, I mean, I think, both in terms of the way we traditionally have done things and sort of over time, you know, increase from an inclusivity perspective and from the diversity perspective, the face, I think for the better, of the US military.

I think for a lot of folks this is going to be a head scratcher, and it's going to be a challenge. Now as far as height and weight standards and being physically fit, I don't have any issue with that. And I don't think most people do. But I do think there's some nuances that were reflected in some of the remarks that I have heard snippets of, that I think are going to be problematic for a lot of senior leadership as they try to adjust to the guidance that they're receiving from senior leadership, operate within the law and within the spirit of the law. But also, there's a lot of sort of cultural norms that have grown up through the services, in the case of the Army over centuries, in the Navy as well, and the Marine Corps. So I think this is going to be very challenging. And I think there's probably going to be a lot of conversations - to which I will not be privy - internal to the U.S. military going forward.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

Lt. Gen. Charles Luckey, thank you so much for weighing in on such short notice. And I really appreciate your reflections.

CHARLES LUCKEY:

Well, it's always a pleasure to be with you.

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CELINA STEWART INTERVIEW

REV. PAUL BRANDEIS RAUSHENBUSH, HOST:

Celina Stewart is the Chief Executive Officer of the League of Women Voters, guiding the organization's mission to educate voters and defend democratic participation. In this role, she leads efforts to provide non-partisan information, promote voter rights, and strengthen civic engagement across communities. Her work focuses on expanding access to the ballot and ensuring informed participation in the democratic process.

 Celina, thank you so much for making time for The State of Belief today!

CELINA STEWART, GUEST:

 Thank you! I'm so excited to be here, so excited.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

I have to start out by saying, I am a huge League of Women voters fan. I am a member of my local League of Women voters. Even more than that, my family has been involved in the League of Women voters from the beginning.

My grandmother, my grandmother's grandmother, my grandmother's mother - from the 1920s, really, believing in the role of the League of Women voters not only for the right of women to vote, but also educating the broader public on issues that affect the world. I think the League is one of the great institutions of America, and I'm just so grateful for all your work in the League of Women Voters.

CELINA STEWART:

Thank you. I personally love to hear stories like that, because for so many women who were trying to engage in civic life, especially as we women were trying to secure the right to vote, civic engagement and socializing was just so critical to the League and who we are today.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

As I said, one of the great organizations, and you are everywhere, which is so exciting. I'm going to make the plug throughout this conversation: join the League of Women Voters. Because what you will get back is incredible: information, opportunities to engage. I'm a super fan.

 Why don't you tell me the first time that you heard about the League of Women Voters? Do you remember when you first came across the League?

CELINA STEWART:

I do. I was pretty engaged on my college campus - I went to school in New York my first year and then transferred to Spelman College In my Second semester. We did voter drives, and I remember, quite frankly, these little old White ladies on campus. And when you’re at a historically Black college or university, you don't always see a table with older White ladies. And so I was just like, what were they doing over there? And so because I was engaged in student government, it was just a part of what we did. So I remember the league from when I was a young woman, a teenager 18, 19, and them showing up when it was time to vote, and it was on the Atlanta University Center.

And then years later when I was back in DC my mentor actually sent me a job from the League and said, this sounds like you. And I was like, the League of Women voters? So I looked it up, and I was like, holy crap, it does sound like me! So I was like, let me apply. And I ended up going through this pretty robust application process, but it has been my dream job since I started in 2018.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

I am so glad to hear that. And what a wonderful trajectory, you know? And part of what I think is great about the League is just showing up, even showing up on the Spelman campus, showing up in all these different spaces and saying, actually, voter enfranchisement matters and voting matters. And also, all of these issues that are at stake will have implications for your life, and so let's talk about them.

 Can we just back up a little bit and talk about the founding of the League of Women Voters and where it comes from?

CELINA STEWART:

The league, as you mentioned, started in 1920. We started, actually, six months before the 19th Amendment, and so we, our founders Kerry Chapman, Kat, women who sat at the table with her, decided that. This was something that was in reach for women, to have the ability to vote and how important it was.

And so her mission, first mission, I think, was to enfranchise the female population across the country and arm them with education and knowledge to effectively vote. Because before, it would be at dinner, dinner table, you know, you're the husband and the wife is trying to convince you: Hey honey, how do you feel about this?

But what I thought is so fascinating about our origin story is that oftentimes in 1920, you know, it was the roaring twenties, we had just come off of a pandemic at that time, right? And so people were starting to go out again and engage in social life. And it still happens today, kind of, when you go to a party, there's a point where the crowd kind of separates: the men go into a room, the women go into a room, and the women in those rooms would take advantage of that moment to share these little papers to say, okay, this is something that's happening in our community. This is something you should be encouraging or influencing your husband to vote yes or no on, until we got the right to vote. The way that women even back then networked for what they wanted and what they needed was just, it's just so cool to to know. And so the organization progressed.

Obviously there's lots of pictures of our founding and marches and the things that we did in pursuit of women's suffrage, and that has progressed. And so now it has expanded to include, who else is not at the table, who else needs to be included, in terms of being enfranchised? And 1972 is when the league first got on board with the Voting Rights Act - we weren't there in the very beginning. We were just like, well, let's see how this pans out. But there was such a demand from our members, that we have got to be in this fight to make sure that, as Black voters or Black people get enfranchised to vote, that we are working with them and supporting these efforts. And it just has progressed.

And now I think, full circle: I'm only the second African American woman to lead the league as CEO. And so I feel like it's a full circle moment. You know, it shows our growth. There's still work to be done, I think, just as with any organization, but we've come a long way and I think we're on the road to righteousness.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

 A hundred percent. And the progress is so important. In my own family, a lot of the activism around the League, the right to vote, happened by people who were very interested in women workers and their own ability to advocate for themselves. And they would go up to Albany or whatever capital and say, Hey, we're getting exploited here. The legislators wouldn't take them seriously because you don't have the right to vote. You're not gonna be able to vote me outta office. You have no power here. And that's when they kind of realized, oh, okay, you know, this is really, this is it.

It's also about making sure that everybody has that right to be represented. And that's, I think, the progression - especially around Black voters and other communities, continuing to bring them into the idea of America and the idea that we actually are by and for the people.

And that is so important.

Now we're in another moment where this question of whose vote actually gets to be counted and the effort, almost, of disenfranchisement, I feel like this current administration is ginning up… You all do so much - by the way, for those listening, we’re going to talk a lot about voting rights and elections, but it's not just about what happens every two years. It's about what's happening all the time in these legislative sessions and educating the public. So sign up at the League of Women voters, start getting their emails, become a member. You will not regret it because you will be smarter. I am smarter because of the League of Women voters - about voting, about what's happening in my community.

But I do want to talk about what the League is doing around voting rights now, because we do have a lot of fears around the upcoming midterms and what kind of ability communities will have to vote. Can you talk a little bit about that fear and what we should all be doing?

CELINA STEWART:

Okay, well first, you're not even on the payroll and you have already mentioned, join the League three times, and I feel like you need to be on payroll.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

Oh, well, you don't have to pay me. I'm that kind of cheerleader. I really believe in it. I'm channeling all women in my family, from generations back, four or five generations back. And if I didn't say it, they would come haunt me. So I am Okay.

CELINA STEWART:

Okay. The ancestors coming. That's, good. Well, yeah, I think there is a lot of fear in this moment and voter suppression has been around for as long as Black folks have been able to vote. So that it's not new. But what we do know is new is that it wears a different costume each round. And so how voter suppression actually shows up we saw in 2022 in Arizona. There were people who were armed at ballot boxes asking people whether or not they could vote, asking them questions that they had no right to ask these people. And there was a lawsuit filed by another organization and the court kicked it out pretty quickly.

And so they were in the process of appealing it to the Fifth Circuit - I think it was the Fifth Circuit - at the time, and we swooped in and said, no, no. We have actual members who were intimidated. They weren't comfortable going to the ballot box. And these were some of our White members, White men and women who were just like, look, I don't even know if I was the target of this, but I was intimidated. I don't want my wife to go to the ballot box when someone's holding a gun and asking her if she can vote.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

Everybody should be out there, because it's about an American right, whether your community is targeted or not. They're targeting the basic right of an American to vote.

CELINA STEWART:

To vote peacefully and without intimidation - there's laws around that, right? And so we went in, filed a lawsuit, and the court heard our case within 24 hours and ruled within about eight hours. He ruled very quickly to get those folks out of there.

And in the ruling we also got longevity, to make sure that didn't happen for 2024 and 2026. And so when I think about the League, in our work, we started with voter education, voter services, but we are very much in the voter protection space now, too. Our mission is empowering voters to defend democracy. Defending democracy is really critical through lawsuits, through pushing back, and holding power accountable.

But back to the fear piece, I think there's a lot of ways that fear can show up. And when I think about this moment, it requires a great deal of courage. Someone said on a panel I was on last week, Maya Wiley actually, she said, you know, courage is not the absence of fear. And that is so true. If courage was the absence of fear, it'd be easy for everyone to do it. And so in a moment like this, it takes so much courage to go vote, and it has taken many communities a lot of courage to show up and vote, because they know that they're a target: Black voters, Hispanic voters, women, etc.

But we have to have courage in this moment. Not just to vote, but just to stand up against what's happening in this country. It's some real harms happening right now in this country for a variety of people. So many of us are impacted, and having courage in this moment is so important to combat that fear.

And it doesn't mean that the fear goes away, it just means that even despite the fear, we do it anyway. We stand up anyway. We fight back anyway.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

I love that. And you know, I talk a lot about courage and how religious communities need to have courage right now. And religious communities are showing courage; and the heart of courage is actually core, which is heart, which is love.

And if you show up with courage, it's showing up with love for our community, love for our neighbor, and love for our democracy. Courage is the key right now. Skye Perryman, who's the president of Democracy Forward, said, courage is the new currency. And we need to mint it. We need to spend it. We need to get out there. And I think what the league is offering us is an avenue for courage. And Interfaith Alliance is partnering with the League. We are part of your election protection and generous election idea. We’ve signed up to be official partners with you and we're on your vote 411 effort. And so just so you know, Interfaith Alliance is in it in more than words. We're actually spreading the news.

Vote 411 is an amazing resource. You can register to vote, you can check your registration. You can find on out what's on the ballot. This is a one stop shop. And that's the reason Interfaith Alliance was so eager to partner, because our faith communities have to be super-engaged right now in all of these questions - because it's about our neighbors, it's about our friends. It's about loving your neighbor, which is a broad idea in the religious landscape.This is really showing up for one another. The information is so important, and that's one of the other reasons to really think about the League.

But we need to name it a little bit. We've already heard this administration, they're already gearing up ways to intimidate: ICE going everywhere, and masked men and women showing up, really inflicting terror on communities. And what will that do to communities, especially marginalized communities or communities that are the target of a lot of this? What will that do in voter suppression? I think that's a real concern. And it requires - and here I'm going to say something, I'm speaking to my listeners here: those of us who are part of religious communities, it is beholden upon us to show up with courage in that moment.

There's all sorts of ways that religious folks can show up in ways that are appropriate in polling places and make sure there's polling chaplains, all kinds of things to make sure that people are not intimidated. I do think that there's a special role right now in all of our society for people of all different faith traditions to show up in positive ways: keeping the peace, but also showing courage and saying, you're not going to intimidate us. Putting on a collar or putting on a stole or putting on a kippah - whatever you do, and saying: you have to come through me if you want to get to them. And I think that's something we have to really start taking more and more seriously flowing out of the Civil Rights Movement and all that courage that it took to show up. We need that kind of spirit. Now it's a similar moment.

CELINA STEWART:

I've seen a lot of pastors and priests show up in this moment and condemn things that are happening in this country. And I think the faith community has always been a part of movement. The Catholic Church has always been a part of movement. And they have been so instrumental. When I think about the Black church during the Civil Rights Movement, they were instrumental to the movement.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

I think they were the movement. Sometimes people take out the religion from Martin Luther King or John Lewis or Howard Thurman or all these folks. I'm not saying that there weren't secular people involved; I just think it's also a call to those of us who are spiritual today to say, okay, that's the history that we should lean into.

CELINA STEWART:

I totally agree. And one of the things that we're doing, because you talked about everyday activism, we launched a new campaign, Unite and Rise 8.5, which is the League’s strategic initiative to mobilize 8.5 million voters. And when we think about 8.5, that number is really the tipping point for transformation and change. It's a number rooted in the voter population, but we've seen, when there have been authoritarian overreaches in the past - and authoritarianism just means when you're trying to consolidate power to a few people instead of it being based on the people - when we think about that, that's the 3.5 million people in the country, is just a small amount of people who we need in order to push back and make sure that we can save our country.

And so to me it's a little bit of a relief to know that we don't need everybody - because we're not going to get everybody on board. There just has to be enough, a few strong people, in order to do that. And this work is really about empowering voters and defending democracy at the ballot box, which is the League's foundation.

Our country is facing a really scary moment right now. We’re in a constitutional crisis, and it's up to as many Americans as possible to lean in. And it's not limited to people who are activists around voting: this is the faith community, this is the business community, this is academia.

All of these different sectors. Those are what the seven pillars of influence that have to lean in in this moment to be inclusive.

I think we have more in common than we differ, right? And so, focusing on what we have in common: we're all human. We're all God's children, right? And so thinking about the fact that we are all God's children and there's enough, there's enough. This world, this universe provides enough resources for us all. And so there's no reason for us to not share. And I understand that for some people, equality feels like oppression, but that is not God's way. There's enough resources in this universe which provides so much so that we all have enough to thrive.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

Yes. Tthat is so important. I am curious about you: what is your background? You went to New York and then Spelman. Were you raised in a religious tradition? Were you raised in a spiritual tradition? Are you trained as a lawyer? I need to know more about you, because clearly you are a leader for this moment. Tell us a little bit more about your own biography.

CELINA STEWART:

Yeah, so I grew up in the church. I grew up in a non-denominational church. My bishop was in a church in Maryland, so that was where I grew up. And to me, what I do now and what I grew up doing is so connected, civic life and religion, because anyone who goes to church… Just like at the League, I often volunteer people to do things like, I'm gonna volunteer you to do this thing.

But I was voluntold all the time in church, like the children's ministry, helping with the Christmas play every year or whatever, religious play or performances that you have. I was plugged in, so it was very service-oriented. And so even as I moved to civic life, it's very service-oriented.

So yes, I'm trained as an attorney. My mom was actually the one who helped me figure out what area of law I wanted to study when I was in law school. You take all these foundational classes, you take writing, you take torts, you take constitutional law, you take contracts. All these things, right?

And so I was going to Constitution Law One class, and we were learning about the Civil Rights Movement, voting rights cases. And I would come home and I'd be so upset, I'm like, ugh, I hate this class. My mom was like, why do you hate this class? I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe that the judge ruled this way. What was he thinking? How does he not know the impact of what he's doing or what she's doing? And she said, well, I think you know what your practice is going to be. I think you know what your area of law is going to be, because this is the only class that really gets you upset, where you're feeling it.

And I was just like, oh my God, are you kidding? I would never do this. I have a heart attack doing this work. But she was right. I ended up being a voting rights attorney because I wanted to work to liberate communities. Anyone who was marginalized, anyone who feels othered, anyone who feels left out - it was important for me to be a voice for that community. And some of the cases that I filed lifted barriers, people had more access to the vote; so many people will never know my name - and it never mattered to me. I just wanted to be a person who was conscious and intentional about liberation and liberating people, and removing barriers so that people have more access to voting and just to thrive in life.

Because I think that as human beings, we all just want to thrive. We want to feel accepted, we want to feel loved. We want to feel cared for. And I think that's why this moment is so hard in this country - because there's so much hatred. There's so much hatred of people because of who you love or what your skin tone is or how you speak or where you're from, and that's not Christianity. Christianity is about love and kindness.

The 10 Commandments talks about love. Love thy neighbor as you love yourself, right? And so anything grounded in Christianity or religion is based on love and kindness. And I just don't see that. And so I always try to find ways: how can I leverage my platform, my voice, to spread love and kindness, and let people know I see you, I hear you, I feel you, and I'm with you.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

I think that's a great way to talk about democracy, frankly, in toto. How do we see our neighbor and recognize that they have needs too, and that we have to create a society based on laws that recognize it's can't be all about me. It has to be,also, about my neighbor and my neighbor who is similar to me and very different from me. And that is the genius, frankly, of America. If we get into it and really want to talk about if there is something special about the United States, it's the idea that people of very different backgrounds and beliefs can live side by side and recognize the right of one another to thrive equally. Whether you're Christian or White or man or whatever, you don't have more rights. Frankly, you don't have more right to thrive. You should not.

Okay. I'm going to just be shady for a second, but, you know, you're talking about the goal of Christianity is to love. We're recording this right after the memorial service for Charlie Kirk and the president said, I just hate my enemies. I'm like, okay, okay. At a religious service, at a eulogy. We don't need more proof that the president's claim to Christianity is just ridiculous.

CELINA STEWART:

But I've been really grappling with this because I have had to tell myself, since the election, and especially since the administration took over: I want to understand. I was just like, I don't understand: it just seems like the platform was based on hate. And I think that people, when he was campaigning, didn't hear the dog whistles, didn't hear the underlying undercurrents that have been part of this country for a long time.

But I have to keep telling myself, God is in control. God allows whatever happens, right? And so, if He's always in control what does this mean?

And I've gotten to this place recently where I just keep thinking, perhaps the current president, president Trump, had to be the messenger to awaken us. We're in a moment of divine femininity. And you know, it's a war, it's a spiritual war that we're feeling right now. It's not just left versus right, that has nothing to do with it. This is about light and darkness. And when we think about the spiritual warfare happening in this country right now, I keep thinking, the only thing that I came out of my meditation with, is this was the messenger to help awaken spirituality in this country -because it had to get to a point where people needed to push back. I feel like people have been sleeping.And we're seeing slowly, more and more people become awake.

And I think that when you think about awakening, I always think about spiritual prototypes. This is a moment. Whenever you have crises like this, whenever you have broad-scale harm like this, it's when people have to lean into their God-given talents. Because those are the things that light the path forward, right?

 And so often we go to these jobs that we don't like and we don't always get to use our creativity and whatever God made us to do. But if you are living and breathing in this moment, then it means you have a purpose. And it means that you have a purpose in this moment. And so you have got to tap into whatever your purpose is, because your purpose is tied to how you use your creativity and whatever your God-given talents are to awaken people.

So whether you're an artist, maybe you create art that awakens people – because there's all these prototypes. There's the oracle, the healer, the messenger, the alchemist, the artist, the rebel, the teacher, the priestess or priest, the guardian in the mirror. So it's just like, what is your spiritual archetype? If you don't know what it is, figure it out now. This is a time when the world needs your light more than ever. And so I encourage people, and even for myself, tapping back into to what I need.

I know that I'm a healer. My archetype is healing. And so whatever that is, I'm like, how do I find ways to create healing and spread love so that we're counterbalancing this narrative of hate. And how do I exercise kindness even when someone doesn't like me, doesn't think that I deserve to be here, doesn't think I deserve to have equity - how do I exercise kindness and healing in a moment like this?

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

Well, that is beautiful. And we are with you and we need you to shine, but I love the message. All of us need to shine no matter where we are, what we do. We all have a role in this democracy - and we all have a right to our role and our place in this democracy. And frankly, democracy to function needs all of us. So this idea of a radical invitation, I think that's what the League can offer right now. No one is dispensable. For this democracy to work, we need everyone.  love that. I think it's so beautiful.

And I'm flashing on a moment. You may know that my great-grandfather was Louis Brandeis, who was a Supreme Court Justice, and there's a law school named after him in Louisville.  connected the law school, Louis Brandeis Law School, with Skye Perryman. And she did a Q-and-A with the students. And one student, a young Black woman who was first year and was just feeling a lot of frustration. She displayed it beautifully and was just like, I have anger about what's happening. And Skye said, you know, if that anger and that feeling is helping you go deeper into getting the skills you need to take this forward - go with it.

 If it doesn't, if it's sidetracking, you go deep into the law right now and find ways to make it work so that you can go out there and productively use that sacred anger to change the world. And I think that's what I heard with you and your story about the Constitution: Listen to what's stirring up your soul. Thhere's opportunities for all of us to engage right now. No one is powerless.

Autocrats love the idea that people are powerless. They want to promote the idea that there's nothing you can do. This is just a fait accompli, and we're headed towards authoritarianism. You're not. And this is one of the great opportunities with any group, but we're talking to you, so the League, there's tangible things all of us can do. And one of them is: become informed. And one of them most fragile currencies right now, and one of the most important, is information. There's a disinformation industry out there, just flagrant lies that are factually incorrect information. And, it's really hard to build a common democracy when the idea of truth or alternative facts and all of this… You are offering facts and information about what is in front of us at the League of Women Voters. Talk about the information economy and how important that is for an organization like the League.

CELINA STEWART:

Back in 2020, or maybe it was 2021, we hired a dedicated staffer around some work that we call the Democracy Truth Project. We noticed that there was a rise in mis- and disinformation. And so we wanted to have someone who was tracking this around voting: What were the things being said around voting that was mis- and disinformation? And for those folks who are not clear about the difference, misinformation is anything that’s spread unintentionally. You share something not realizing it's not true. Disinformation is knowing that it's untrue and sharing it anyway. And so we wanted to really combat disinformation, and we also wanted to encourage people to not share stuff that they hadn't checked or verified, etc. That's the mis- part of it. And so I think that work is really, really important.

Earlier I mentioned Unite and Rise, and I'm so excited about this initiative because it was birthed out of our declaring there's a constitutional crisis in this country. So we declared that on April 17th, and then on May 1st, we launched United and Rise, which is six 90-day sprint campaigns, like micro campaigns. The first one went from May to July 31st. We're now in the second one, which was August ąst through October 31st, or through Halloween. And every 90 days, we focus on small actions that people can take to increase their civic engagement. And what I love about it is that we try to give at least nine or ten things that you can do over this 90-day period from starting an election observer corps – because right now we've seen that redistricting is happening. And so now we have people watching to see when redistricting is happening. Sharing when it's happening, when hearings are, because sometimes hearings happen on Tuesday at 10 o'clock when everybody's at work. So if you can't go to Tuesday at 10 o'clock when they're hosting this thing, how do you submit testimony?

So we have a template for: Here's how you fill out what your community is, you know, my community is made up of these different populations, and we share this grocery store or school, etc. So we equip people with how to actually participate in the redistricting process, whether you can be at the hearing or not, but also just to educate people. We're hearing people talk about redistricting for the first time who have never been engaged around it. And so they're just like, what is this redistricting thing? And it's like, let's make it plain. Redistricting is sometimes in the clouds, this wonky topic, but it's all about the distribution of power.

The lines dictate who you can elect and who will represent you in Congress and at your state level, whether that's your State House or Senate. And right now the fight is for the congressional seats. We know that in Texas, the president directed DOJ to question five districts in Texas and Governor Abbott said, okay, we're just gonna redo the maps - with very little public participation. It was passed in the middle of the night without people being able to contribute. But the League was there helping people write testimonies like, okay, this is going to happen in the middle of the night, but get your voice on the record. Because we knew that we needed that record if we were going to try to stand up or push back on the maps once they were done. And we have done that.

Unite and Rise is such a great opportunity because it makes democracy accessible to everyday people. These 90-day sprints give us a real opportunity to get people engaged, and studies show that when people engage in small actions, they tend to engage in more actions over time.

And so we're trying to get people engaged on a micro level so that we have this macro impact.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

I think that kind of engagement makes all the difference. And if we don't show up, they just go ahead and say, oh, well, we had an open forum. No one showed up. We just assumed we did what we wanted to do.

We have examples all over the country with Interfaith Alliance where people are trying to take over public schools and input one idea of religion that is their idea of religion, frankly. And we've been helping people show up and say, no, that doesn't represent… Even as Christians, we don't want that in there because this doesn't represent us. We want it to be open for everybody, and the more we show up in bigger numbers, peacefully, clearly, with the facts in hand, that's what will turn the tide. And I think that that's so important.

I want to say one thing that's probably clear to everybody, but I need to say it again, is that the League of Women Voters is not just for women. That's its history, it's described that way, it came out of a certain moment specifically because women were not allowed to vote. And so it has that name. I will tell you, my grandfather joined the League of Women Voters in the 1930s. He was like, I want to be a member of the League. I am a non-voting member - because his wife, my grandmother, was very involved. But he wanted this to show his support: I'm, you know, a male member of the League of Women voters.

Since then, I think more and more it's continued to expand in the idea of who the League represents, who is welcome in the League. Can you talk a little bit about the diversity of people who are welcome in the League, and the idea of how that diversity actually lends itself to the democracy work that the League is engaged in?

CELINA STEWART:

You're absolutely right. We are the League of Women Voters. We were founded by women with this big, audacious goal to enfranchise half the female population across the country, which represented about 10 million people in 1920. As we have grown, we embrace anyone who wants to work towards our policies; and the policies are well beyond policies that impact just women. We do gun safety, we do immigration, voting rights, redistricting. You know, redistricting affects us all, whether you're a voter or not, it affects residents, right? It's all about representation and making sure that you have services based on where you are. And so we are a place that welcomes anyone who wants to advocate and support our issues.

We don't care what your gender is, what your identity is, what your race is. It's about coming together around policy to make this world and this country better.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

I think that's a reason that Interfaith Alliance and the League of Women voters are such good partners, because we feel exactly the same way.

You don't have to be a religious person. There's no litmus test on how religious you have to be or what kind of religion. We work with the Atheist community, with the Secular Humanist community. Everybody who wants to work to make sure that everyone has equal rights under the law and is able to thrive, come on down. We want to work with you.

I hate to give it more oxygen, but it is real. I'm sure you were very well aware of the CNN profile of some Christians who, frankly, some of the highest levels of our government adhere to, who are actually actively talking about repealing the 19th Amendment. Talk about blood boiling…

CELINA STEWART:

They ought to be ashamed of themselves. They ought to be ashamed of themselves! Women have been the backbone of this country for so long. No one on this planet would be here without women. So yeah, it is wild.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

It is wild to me, all these men talking about how like, oh, well, you know, we'll just represent the family. I am at the point where if people start saying stuff that sounds crazy, believe them. They mean it. And that's the scary thing, I'm embarrassed to say it comes out of my faith tradition where they are saying, based on their religious beliefs, Christian beliefs, that women should not have the right to vote. And I just think we should take it really seriously.

This is the church that, frankly, Pete Hegseth, Secretary of Defense, attends. We see evidence of that in the way he's treated women in the military.

CELINA STEWART:

I have some thoughts on that. I agree with you. I don't accept that sentiment at all, but I understand it. It's not acceptable, though. I want to reiterate that. Understandable, but not acceptable. The Women's Liberation Movement has progressed so much. When we think about when we first started in 1920, we could not have a credit card. We could not own property. It had to be done through our husband's name. In many jurisdictions around the country, you couldn't even get a divorce without your husband's permission. Imagine needing to get a divorce and be like, okay, I gotta get out of this thing. And you have to get permission from the very person you're trying to separate from.

My parents have been married 53 years. It's work, right? It's work. But I think what we see here - and there was a gentleman on the Diary of a CEO who explained it so well - he was from Europe and he talked about how the Women's Liberation Movement has kind of left some men behind, because women have moved forward in terms of what their education is, what their understanding is. We do so much work on ourselves to understand how we're feeling and how to communicate and what we're going through. And sometimes men don't do that same work.

And so we're at a place where women have evolved to such a level, and some men - not all men, but some men - have felt left behind. They don't feel like they have a voice, they don't feel like they can communicate or understand how to work with these very liberated women. And so I don't think that means that women shouldn't have rights. It means that we've got to figure out a way, as the world continues to evolve and we evolve as women and men and people, how we continue to work and connect to each other.

And so I think that's a conversation that a lot of people are not willing to have, but we have got to figure, evolution is going to change things as, as any species evolves. It means that something's going to change and something's going to be moved away from, you're going to move away from codependency. You're going to move away from dependency altogether. And so what does it mean to be interdependent as a liberated woman and now liberated men? And we have to be willing to do that work.

You cannot just discard women's liberation or the women who have evolved to a certain point just because it's harder to be interconnected. We’ve just got to figure that piece out.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

Now I know why you understand yourself and should celebrate yourself as a healer. I am hearing that right now.

 I want to close with the question I'm asking a lot of people now: What does courage look like to you right now?

CELINA STEWART:

Being scared because there's a lot of scary things in the world. Feeling the fear, but doing it anyway. Whether that is when you see something happening in your neighborhood, people getting swept up, intervening. Whether that means posting something that may not be popular because it actually calls out an injustice - because in a position like me, I could easily be more targeted. Most people don't think that the League is a target - voter services, voter education and things like that. But there are targets even on the League.

You know, in moments like this, because of our outspokenness for what's right – and we have been very bold and said, you know, many of the policies, it's going to harm people. It's going to harm children, it's going to harm women, it’s going to harm the federal workforce, it’s going to harm men and access to healthcare in a lot of different ways. Courage is doing what's right even when no one is looking. Speaking up for people who don't have a voice, even if it doesn't affect you directly. Just speaking up. And I think that that is so important.

Speaking up in this moment is what is going to save us and it's what's required. Anyone who is religious, or from a religious background, faith, but even beyond that, I think it just comes down to decency. When you see someone being harmed, are you going to stand by and watch the harm happen? Are you going to step in to try to help? And so I think that that is what courage looks like to me in this moment.

PAUL RAUSHENBUSH:

Celina Stewart is CEO of the League of Women Voters, which has been empowering voters and defending democracy since 1920. Join in their work and support the league at www.lwv.org.

Celina, I really appreciate you and your presence here on The State of Belief.

CELINA STEWART:

Thank you so much. Donate to the league. We always need resources. Join us as a member. We look forward to seeing you all in the fight.